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spiderbraids15 years later, I still have things to say about this episode's most significant editing choice...
Episode 4: The Black Mud Swamp / The Voice of Nature
Today, we deal with Bloom naming the group The Winx Club.
The content of the scene wasn't significantly different (except for a W.i.t.c.h. reference in the 4Kids version), but the main issue is where it happened.
Unedited: Happens at the end of 1x02 (1x04 ends with Bloom checking on Stella in her room, and she's mumbling about Fake!Sky in her sleep).
Edited: Happens at the end of 1x04 (1x02 ends abruptly after FG and the Griz send the girls back to the dorm, and the scene with Stella in the bedroom is missing altogether).
Bloom earns her wings in 1x03 in both versions. So, which sounds better? Bloom naming the group before she earned her wings, or after?
For that matter, there's another issue of the name itself.
Unedited: She makes the name up randomly.
Tecna: Yes, but what does Winx mean???
Bloom: Nothing, just "Winx".
Edited: The term "Winx" is the show's supposedly hip term for magic (I know, the edited 1x02 has its own explanation but whatever).
Tecna: So, our name is "Winx" then?
Bloom: Better. We're the "Winx Club".
Responses:
alisonchainsv1: I really like 4Kids version better here. It makes more sense rather than just being pulled out of nowhere.
cavefelem: For once, I like the 4Kids version better. Always found it a bit funny that "Winx" doesn't mean anything in the unedited version.
tanz_fanatika: Definitely gotta prefer the 4Kids. The later placement is more realistic. I mean, these girls have barely known each other for long in either case, but giving them a little more time to settle in as a group and work together more than once is a much more realistic notion. And naturally, the name having meaning instead of being a nonsense word is preferable.
And I really love the W.I.T.C.H. shot in our version.
4Kids for the win here. There's nothing of the original that is even debatably better.
What's funny is that I note that you (NB: i.e., me) don't give your own opinion here. You're very quick to talk about how you prefer the original in cases where you think it's better, but you're being quite quiet now. Not wanting to admit we have a better version, hmm?
(NB: I'd already made my reply by this time, but we'll get to that in a moment)
rhapsodyinpink: Yes, the W.I.T.C.H dig is fun.
ddrfan: He/She/It is such a scardycat to admit it! Our version rules big time, in other words 4kids wins! The end.
Winx means nothing in the unedited version WTF!?
In the comic, Winx is similar to the word wings, then the GS is taken out and the X is added to make the word Winx.
(NB: Just because I didn't give my opinion immediately doesn't make me a "scaredycat" to admit to 4Kids being better [more on that in a moment], but anyways, as for the comic-version name origin, I would've preferred they'd at least done that in the animated version, so that my point below would actually work... And incidentally, ddrfan was not only highly in favor of the 4Kids version, but also incredibly against my comparison posts, which we'll save that for later)
Me: Personally, I think it makes sense that the group has a unique identifier for themselves, and it's more meaningful at the end of the season when FG says something like "I've decided to redefine the concept of the modern fairy with one word: Winx."
(NB: Or in the words of a certain Pixar film: "When everyone's special, no one is" :-) Others didn't take too kindly to this response, though...)
tanz_fanatika: Okay, now you're just BSing because you don't want to admit we're better.
(NB: Language edit, obviously :-))
Me, responding to TF's earlier claim of "Not wanting to admit we have a better version": Not wanting to get banned again, rather. Personally, Frank's summary has its own take on things:
And considering "winx" is just a generic term at Alfea, it makes sense that Tecna would be unimpressed with the name. It would be like a normal high school clique calling themselves "The High School Students." Obviously not a very popular clique.
When Winx doesn't have any meaning, this problem ceases to exist.
(NB: The summary I'm quoting is still online after all these years :-))
tanz_fanatika, firing off another warning shot: You don't want to get banned again, so you quote without permission. Smart. Didn't I yell at you enough in ToonZone about doing that? Don't make me start up again. I have much less patience for that nonsense in a community where I'm an admin.
When winx doesn't have any meaning, it's just a nonsense word. Personally, I'd much rather be named after a generic term than a made-up word with no meaning. It would be like The Gurgenpflatz Club vs. The Sponge Club. Sure, sponges might not be fun, but at least everyone knows what they are.
(NB: TF once said to me after I re-posted a list of opinions from another board at ToonZone: "Why are you now quoting more people? Just let it go! You obviously didn't ask these people's permission to use their thoughts, just like you never asked Frank or me." *sigh* I will never understand why TF put quoting other people's opinions without permission, even with proper credit, in the same bucket as plagiarism, when there's nothing inherently wrong or disrespectful with the former :-\ TF was rather protective of her content [and even other fans'], and I also remember some now-defunct fan groups being told not to repost her Winx summaries :-\)
(NB2: Seems like TF and others are missing what I was trying to get at with quoting Frank's summary: His whole argument of Winx being a generic term is that literally everyone at Alfea has it, whereas not everyone at a typical school will be into sponges, so I don't think TF's analogy holds up; also, her example of a nonsense word doesn't roll off the tongue like Winx does)
Me, after quickly apologizing for the quote: While it's true that Winx is nonsense when it has no meaning, that lack of meaning is what makes it a unique identifier, and it's (to borrow Bloom's line) simple, yet catchy. (And similar to the word "wings" as in fairy wings, I guess... I guess that's why 4K repurposed it into a "hip" term for magic...)
tanz_fanatika: Did you ever consider asking permission to quote? It's not that hard. It's the lack of even trying to get permission that bugs me more than your usage.
I still think Winx with our meaning makes a fine name and a nonsense word is cr@p. If they'd given the wings to winx explanation, I'd be fine with it, but Bloom just making up a word out of her behind? Cr@p.
There have been lots of successful clubs with obvious names. The Baby-sitters Club and Fight Club spring to mind. Really obvious there. School clubs often don't have fancy names. They're just drama club, art club, photography club, etc. So in that manner, the Winx Club fits in fine.
I just thought it was funny that you didn't try to insist that the original was better immediately. I didn't notice the comment right away.
But overwhelming opinions say no. 4Kids wins this one.
(NB: Well, I say overwhelming opinions didn't fully think this issue through beyond "Winx actually has a meaning in our version, so there" :-\ I'd argue it's not so much the name being obvious that is the issue, it's that not everyone at your typical high school has a common interest in drama or photography, which is kinda the whole point of a club, but at Alfea everyone is learning to "connect to [their] Winx", so there isn't the same sense of exclusivity the way 4Kids does it... I would have been okay with Winx having a meaning, just not this meaning)
(NB2: Meanwhile, over a decade later, here's a thread of two Redditors arguing about the whole Winx name issue, among other things [Aug 23: Replaced original Reddit link with reveddit, as one of the participants quit Reddit and deleted their comments via bot, presumably over the whole API issue])
The other notable change to the 4Kids version involves a gassy mud puddle: In the original, it's implied that the gas was explosive, whereas the 4Kids dub changes it to "Medusa Gas" that turns the tree they're hiding behind to stone (this won't be the only time 4Kids tries to lean in more on the show's fantasy setting than the original)
Episode 4: The Black Mud Swamp / The Voice of Nature
Today, we deal with Bloom naming the group The Winx Club.
The content of the scene wasn't significantly different (except for a W.i.t.c.h. reference in the 4Kids version), but the main issue is where it happened.
Unedited: Happens at the end of 1x02 (1x04 ends with Bloom checking on Stella in her room, and she's mumbling about Fake!Sky in her sleep).
Edited: Happens at the end of 1x04 (1x02 ends abruptly after FG and the Griz send the girls back to the dorm, and the scene with Stella in the bedroom is missing altogether).
Bloom earns her wings in 1x03 in both versions. So, which sounds better? Bloom naming the group before she earned her wings, or after?
For that matter, there's another issue of the name itself.
Unedited: She makes the name up randomly.
Tecna: Yes, but what does Winx mean???
Bloom: Nothing, just "Winx".
Edited: The term "Winx" is the show's supposedly hip term for magic (I know, the edited 1x02 has its own explanation but whatever).
Tecna: So, our name is "Winx" then?
Bloom: Better. We're the "Winx Club".
Responses:
alisonchainsv1: I really like 4Kids version better here. It makes more sense rather than just being pulled out of nowhere.
cavefelem: For once, I like the 4Kids version better. Always found it a bit funny that "Winx" doesn't mean anything in the unedited version.
tanz_fanatika: Definitely gotta prefer the 4Kids. The later placement is more realistic. I mean, these girls have barely known each other for long in either case, but giving them a little more time to settle in as a group and work together more than once is a much more realistic notion. And naturally, the name having meaning instead of being a nonsense word is preferable.
And I really love the W.I.T.C.H. shot in our version.
4Kids for the win here. There's nothing of the original that is even debatably better.
What's funny is that I note that you (NB: i.e., me) don't give your own opinion here. You're very quick to talk about how you prefer the original in cases where you think it's better, but you're being quite quiet now. Not wanting to admit we have a better version, hmm?
(NB: I'd already made my reply by this time, but we'll get to that in a moment)
rhapsodyinpink: Yes, the W.I.T.C.H dig is fun.
ddrfan: He/She/It is such a scardycat to admit it! Our version rules big time, in other words 4kids wins! The end.
Winx means nothing in the unedited version WTF!?
In the comic, Winx is similar to the word wings, then the GS is taken out and the X is added to make the word Winx.
(NB: Just because I didn't give my opinion immediately doesn't make me a "scaredycat" to admit to 4Kids being better [more on that in a moment], but anyways, as for the comic-version name origin, I would've preferred they'd at least done that in the animated version, so that my point below would actually work... And incidentally, ddrfan was not only highly in favor of the 4Kids version, but also incredibly against my comparison posts, which we'll save that for later)
Me: Personally, I think it makes sense that the group has a unique identifier for themselves, and it's more meaningful at the end of the season when FG says something like "I've decided to redefine the concept of the modern fairy with one word: Winx."
(NB: Or in the words of a certain Pixar film: "When everyone's special, no one is" :-) Others didn't take too kindly to this response, though...)
tanz_fanatika: Okay, now you're just BSing because you don't want to admit we're better.
(NB: Language edit, obviously :-))
Me, responding to TF's earlier claim of "Not wanting to admit we have a better version": Not wanting to get banned again, rather. Personally, Frank's summary has its own take on things:
And considering "winx" is just a generic term at Alfea, it makes sense that Tecna would be unimpressed with the name. It would be like a normal high school clique calling themselves "The High School Students." Obviously not a very popular clique.
When Winx doesn't have any meaning, this problem ceases to exist.
(NB: The summary I'm quoting is still online after all these years :-))
tanz_fanatika, firing off another warning shot: You don't want to get banned again, so you quote without permission. Smart. Didn't I yell at you enough in ToonZone about doing that? Don't make me start up again. I have much less patience for that nonsense in a community where I'm an admin.
When winx doesn't have any meaning, it's just a nonsense word. Personally, I'd much rather be named after a generic term than a made-up word with no meaning. It would be like The Gurgenpflatz Club vs. The Sponge Club. Sure, sponges might not be fun, but at least everyone knows what they are.
(NB: TF once said to me after I re-posted a list of opinions from another board at ToonZone: "Why are you now quoting more people? Just let it go! You obviously didn't ask these people's permission to use their thoughts, just like you never asked Frank or me." *sigh* I will never understand why TF put quoting other people's opinions without permission, even with proper credit, in the same bucket as plagiarism, when there's nothing inherently wrong or disrespectful with the former :-\ TF was rather protective of her content [and even other fans'], and I also remember some now-defunct fan groups being told not to repost her Winx summaries :-\)
(NB2: Seems like TF and others are missing what I was trying to get at with quoting Frank's summary: His whole argument of Winx being a generic term is that literally everyone at Alfea has it, whereas not everyone at a typical school will be into sponges, so I don't think TF's analogy holds up; also, her example of a nonsense word doesn't roll off the tongue like Winx does)
Me, after quickly apologizing for the quote: While it's true that Winx is nonsense when it has no meaning, that lack of meaning is what makes it a unique identifier, and it's (to borrow Bloom's line) simple, yet catchy. (And similar to the word "wings" as in fairy wings, I guess... I guess that's why 4K repurposed it into a "hip" term for magic...)
tanz_fanatika: Did you ever consider asking permission to quote? It's not that hard. It's the lack of even trying to get permission that bugs me more than your usage.
I still think Winx with our meaning makes a fine name and a nonsense word is cr@p. If they'd given the wings to winx explanation, I'd be fine with it, but Bloom just making up a word out of her behind? Cr@p.
There have been lots of successful clubs with obvious names. The Baby-sitters Club and Fight Club spring to mind. Really obvious there. School clubs often don't have fancy names. They're just drama club, art club, photography club, etc. So in that manner, the Winx Club fits in fine.
I just thought it was funny that you didn't try to insist that the original was better immediately. I didn't notice the comment right away.
But overwhelming opinions say no. 4Kids wins this one.
(NB: Well, I say overwhelming opinions didn't fully think this issue through beyond "Winx actually has a meaning in our version, so there" :-\ I'd argue it's not so much the name being obvious that is the issue, it's that not everyone at your typical high school has a common interest in drama or photography, which is kinda the whole point of a club, but at Alfea everyone is learning to "connect to [their] Winx", so there isn't the same sense of exclusivity the way 4Kids does it... I would have been okay with Winx having a meaning, just not this meaning)
(NB2: Meanwhile, over a decade later, here's a thread of two Redditors arguing about the whole Winx name issue, among other things [Aug 23: Replaced original Reddit link with reveddit, as one of the participants quit Reddit and deleted their comments via bot, presumably over the whole API issue])
The other notable change to the 4Kids version involves a gassy mud puddle: In the original, it's implied that the gas was explosive, whereas the 4Kids dub changes it to "Medusa Gas" that turns the tree they're hiding behind to stone (this won't be the only time 4Kids tries to lean in more on the show's fantasy setting than the original)
