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spiderbraidsTime for a very infamous plot hole :-)
2x09: Professor Avalon's Secret / Angel of Doom
Unedited: We open on some weird flashback scene of a pillage. Later, we have a scene of Digit in the computer. It's short, but it's just long enough for Digit to find a book and tell Tecna to go to the library. Meanwhile, Lockette snags her dress (trying to play in the computer like Digit is doing), and Chatta gives her a new one, which she will be wearing in many other eps.
Edited: The weird flashback thing is embedded within the not-so-short-anymore scene of Digit in the computer. And that scene cuts straight to Tecna and Digit in the library, without showing the bit between Chatta and Lockette.
On the one hand, time constraints. On the other, suddenly Lockette's in this new outfit with no explanation while feeding some pets.
Unedited: Pally introduces his new look, the latest step in his elf evolution. New!Pally teaches how to create a Plasma Sphere, and gives warnings on how to use it. Instead of aiming it at the targets as he tells her to, Amaryl decides to shoot it at Stella, so New!Pally desists the sphere and threatens to expel Amaryl.
Edited: Pally introduces his new look, which he got after a vacation. New!Pally teaches how to create a Sphere of Truth, and gives warnings on how to use it. Instead of aiming it at the targets as he tells her to, Amaryl decides to shoot it at Stella, so New!Pally desists the sphere and gives Amaryl detention.
My thoughts on changing the nature of the sphere... while it does make it less violent (violence and Saturday mornings no longer mix), it creates two new problems: One, we never see the Sphere of Truth do its intended thing (while destruction was the Plasma Sphere's intended thing, and we get lots of it from Tecna), and two, it's inconsistent with a plot twist later in the season.
My thoughts on New!Pally... what's so un-kid-friendly about evolution? Isn't it a key part of Pokemon anyway?
Minor one! Swordfighting, and Bloom breaks the sword she's picked.
Unedited: Avalon explains why the other sword was better (it was made with a better alloy). The moral is not to trust appearances.
Edited: Same as unedited, except Bloom was actually going to pick the other sword, and the moral is to trust your first instincts.
In either case, the moral is so totally setting up Avalon to be revealed as evil. Except that it doesn't happen. On to the epilogue!
Unedited: Tecna insists that she attacked Avalon based on a well-known prophecy, and a bunch of observations she made. FG tells her that the prophecy was written by a comedian, and just because it was well-known doesn't mean it's true (there was a scene in Avalon's class that also said something like this earlier).
(NB: The 4Kids version of the Avalon's class scene has him demand the full trust of his students)
Edited: Tecna insisted that she attacked Avalon based on her logical conclusions. FG tells Tecna that her logic was flawed. Her logic? Flawed? That's new. The prophecy itself, however, does not get debunked.
I will say this. Debunking the prophecy gives the writers an excuse (if a flimsy one) to not make Tecna suspicious of Avalon again in, say, episode 19. (There was one time I assumed that Tecna would be renewing her suspicions against him in that episode, and I was surprised to read that she doesn't.)
(NB: As posted at ToonZone before a rerun of 2x19: [Me] "Avalon gives Bloom a regression spell, and next thing you know, Bloom's turned evil. Wonder if Tec is starting to be suspicious about Avalon again at this point?" [Response] "Frankly, I'm surprised that no one else was suspicious of Avalon until the Big Reveal towards the end of S2. Almost every interaction with him resulted in something bad happening. You'd think at least Tecna would have retained her original suspicions of him, but then again her accusation of him being wrong was a real blow to her."
The 4Kids eps aired in the US before the original version aired over here, so I had no idea that the Dark Bloom incident went by completely uncommented-upon by Tecna; you'd expect a logical person like her to say something)
Responses:
snapes_angel (now deceased since 2014, RIP): One, we never see the Sphere of Truth do its intended thing (while destruction was the Plasma Sphere's intended thing, and we get lots of it from Tecna), and two, it's inconsistent with a plot twist later in the season.
I wondered about this myself (I've only seen the dub). That, and Tecna with the "why did the instinct not come into play in further episodes" thing. the comedian bit would have worked better to allay her suspicions. There was also something abou the time it was supposed to have taken place too, and made me wonder, just how long was true Avalon stuck in Darkar's dungeon?
TF: The unedited makes more sense for the elf evolution, of course. I can't figure out why 4Kids changed that. I still dislike PokePalladium though. He's so smarmy. I see no reason to have changed him at all. The original was so cute.
I still don't like Tecna flinging such a violent spell at Avalon. Logically, she'd have come up with a less harmful one. I prefer the truth orb, despite its flaws. It's less nasty.
Where 4Kids changes are concerned, the Sphere of Truth plot hole is one of the few hills I'm willing to die on... I actually wrote a separate thread about the plot hole, but TF deleted it quickly for excessive nitpicking (!) Nonetheless, I did receive one reply from the late snapes_angel:
"Since they were screwing around with the episodes anyway, since they futzed around with the translation, then mixing the continuity and putting this episode a bit later in the sequence would have made more sense. That is, considering Tecna's suspicions here and her lack of them later. I mean sure, the image of a scorched Avalon was funny, but they don't even mention anything about the spell-casting being skewed."
I'd been suspicious since the plot twist aired in the 4Kids version, and I was quick to point out that the Sphere of Truth should have revealed Avalon as a fake... TF argued that Avalon wasn't the Angel of Doom, and I responded that given the Sphere of Truth's nature it should have revealed something, but despite what I felt to be an iron-clad argument, Michael "mg_winxclub" disagreed: "Who's to say Tecna mastered that spell in one day? She also wasn't cool-headed and over-confident when she casted the spell. Also Lord Darkar said if he could change a Paladin to the dark side so he could change anyone, meaning his magic was that powerful. Furthermore the real Avalon mentioned in Ms. Faragonda's office that Lord Darkar's magic was indeed strong enough to fool everyone with Avalon's evil clone." Which to me, sounds a whole lot like he didn't want to admit that I had a point :-\
After I saw the original version and discussed it by email with TF, she also had similar ideas to Michael: "It's very possible that Tecna performed the truth orb spell wrong, especially being that she was under a lot of pressure and stress. The girls aren't infallible, after all." She would also later say: "Things aren't supposed to work every single time, especially with novice fairies like these." (citing the griffon relocation spell in 3x04 and Tec saying they're probably not far away because this was the first time they performed that particular spell, but to me, that's different than the spell not working at all)
My arguments against:
- If Tecna had cast the spell wrong, Winx Club is the kind of show that would have made it clear to the viewers immediately, rather than let us assume for about half the season that she had cast the spell properly and Avalon was free of secrets
- There was no precedent (at least, in the original) for any of the Winx girls performing a spell wrong because of pressure and stress (the Cloud Tower arc is later in the season, and even then it's made out to be them arguing about what they were going to do)
- Winx Club is also not the kind of show that would introduce a potentially useful plot element, and then throw a curveball by not actually following through on it being useful (the Black Gift is a few years down the road, and outside the scope of these articles in any event) I even went as far to say it was a rule that it has to be effective once, but TF replied "As for your rule, the spell was effective when Amaryl performed it, so it was effective once before Tecna's mishap. We just didn't see the effects thanks to Palladium stepping in." Well, to me, "effective" means actually showing the effects, so it wasn't actually effective :-\ What I was getting at was, why make such a deal about introducing a spell that can be used to reveal people's secrets, if it never actually does that? (Especially when it gets used on someone who must have had plenty to reveal) TF dismissed this rule as ridiculous, saying: "You're the only one with this ridiculous 'if you see it, it must work' rule. Totally unrealistic, in my opinion." (There's that "realistic" argument again... It might not be realistic, but that's how the show rolls, and I'd hardly argue that the rule is ridiculous)
The real issue TF had against the original version's spell was how violent it seemed to make Tecna out to be:
"I must say that for both Amaryl and Tecna to fire these orbs at other people, they must have definite nasty streaks. If the plasma sphere smashed a huge window, what would it have done to Avalon? Blown him up? Broken some bones at least. Nasty nasty Tecna wanting to pound him to shreds. That seems really violent and I can see why 4Kids changed it to the more physically harmless truth orb."
On the one hand, I can understand the whole violence in cartoons issue, but on the other hand, to dismiss the major plothole it causes as merely "flaws" just seems like playing down the issue :-\
2x09: Professor Avalon's Secret / Angel of Doom
Unedited: We open on some weird flashback scene of a pillage. Later, we have a scene of Digit in the computer. It's short, but it's just long enough for Digit to find a book and tell Tecna to go to the library. Meanwhile, Lockette snags her dress (trying to play in the computer like Digit is doing), and Chatta gives her a new one, which she will be wearing in many other eps.
Edited: The weird flashback thing is embedded within the not-so-short-anymore scene of Digit in the computer. And that scene cuts straight to Tecna and Digit in the library, without showing the bit between Chatta and Lockette.
On the one hand, time constraints. On the other, suddenly Lockette's in this new outfit with no explanation while feeding some pets.
Unedited: Pally introduces his new look, the latest step in his elf evolution. New!Pally teaches how to create a Plasma Sphere, and gives warnings on how to use it. Instead of aiming it at the targets as he tells her to, Amaryl decides to shoot it at Stella, so New!Pally desists the sphere and threatens to expel Amaryl.
Edited: Pally introduces his new look, which he got after a vacation. New!Pally teaches how to create a Sphere of Truth, and gives warnings on how to use it. Instead of aiming it at the targets as he tells her to, Amaryl decides to shoot it at Stella, so New!Pally desists the sphere and gives Amaryl detention.
My thoughts on changing the nature of the sphere... while it does make it less violent (violence and Saturday mornings no longer mix), it creates two new problems: One, we never see the Sphere of Truth do its intended thing (while destruction was the Plasma Sphere's intended thing, and we get lots of it from Tecna), and two, it's inconsistent with a plot twist later in the season.
My thoughts on New!Pally... what's so un-kid-friendly about evolution? Isn't it a key part of Pokemon anyway?
Minor one! Swordfighting, and Bloom breaks the sword she's picked.
Unedited: Avalon explains why the other sword was better (it was made with a better alloy). The moral is not to trust appearances.
Edited: Same as unedited, except Bloom was actually going to pick the other sword, and the moral is to trust your first instincts.
In either case, the moral is so totally setting up Avalon to be revealed as evil. Except that it doesn't happen. On to the epilogue!
Unedited: Tecna insists that she attacked Avalon based on a well-known prophecy, and a bunch of observations she made. FG tells her that the prophecy was written by a comedian, and just because it was well-known doesn't mean it's true (there was a scene in Avalon's class that also said something like this earlier).
(NB: The 4Kids version of the Avalon's class scene has him demand the full trust of his students)
Edited: Tecna insisted that she attacked Avalon based on her logical conclusions. FG tells Tecna that her logic was flawed. Her logic? Flawed? That's new. The prophecy itself, however, does not get debunked.
I will say this. Debunking the prophecy gives the writers an excuse (if a flimsy one) to not make Tecna suspicious of Avalon again in, say, episode 19. (There was one time I assumed that Tecna would be renewing her suspicions against him in that episode, and I was surprised to read that she doesn't.)
(NB: As posted at ToonZone before a rerun of 2x19: [Me] "Avalon gives Bloom a regression spell, and next thing you know, Bloom's turned evil. Wonder if Tec is starting to be suspicious about Avalon again at this point?" [Response] "Frankly, I'm surprised that no one else was suspicious of Avalon until the Big Reveal towards the end of S2. Almost every interaction with him resulted in something bad happening. You'd think at least Tecna would have retained her original suspicions of him, but then again her accusation of him being wrong was a real blow to her."
The 4Kids eps aired in the US before the original version aired over here, so I had no idea that the Dark Bloom incident went by completely uncommented-upon by Tecna; you'd expect a logical person like her to say something)
Responses:
snapes_angel (now deceased since 2014, RIP): One, we never see the Sphere of Truth do its intended thing (while destruction was the Plasma Sphere's intended thing, and we get lots of it from Tecna), and two, it's inconsistent with a plot twist later in the season.
I wondered about this myself (I've only seen the dub). That, and Tecna with the "why did the instinct not come into play in further episodes" thing. the comedian bit would have worked better to allay her suspicions. There was also something abou the time it was supposed to have taken place too, and made me wonder, just how long was true Avalon stuck in Darkar's dungeon?
TF: The unedited makes more sense for the elf evolution, of course. I can't figure out why 4Kids changed that. I still dislike PokePalladium though. He's so smarmy. I see no reason to have changed him at all. The original was so cute.
I still don't like Tecna flinging such a violent spell at Avalon. Logically, she'd have come up with a less harmful one. I prefer the truth orb, despite its flaws. It's less nasty.
Where 4Kids changes are concerned, the Sphere of Truth plot hole is one of the few hills I'm willing to die on... I actually wrote a separate thread about the plot hole, but TF deleted it quickly for excessive nitpicking (!) Nonetheless, I did receive one reply from the late snapes_angel:
"Since they were screwing around with the episodes anyway, since they futzed around with the translation, then mixing the continuity and putting this episode a bit later in the sequence would have made more sense. That is, considering Tecna's suspicions here and her lack of them later. I mean sure, the image of a scorched Avalon was funny, but they don't even mention anything about the spell-casting being skewed."
I'd been suspicious since the plot twist aired in the 4Kids version, and I was quick to point out that the Sphere of Truth should have revealed Avalon as a fake... TF argued that Avalon wasn't the Angel of Doom, and I responded that given the Sphere of Truth's nature it should have revealed something, but despite what I felt to be an iron-clad argument, Michael "mg_winxclub" disagreed: "Who's to say Tecna mastered that spell in one day? She also wasn't cool-headed and over-confident when she casted the spell. Also Lord Darkar said if he could change a Paladin to the dark side so he could change anyone, meaning his magic was that powerful. Furthermore the real Avalon mentioned in Ms. Faragonda's office that Lord Darkar's magic was indeed strong enough to fool everyone with Avalon's evil clone." Which to me, sounds a whole lot like he didn't want to admit that I had a point :-\
After I saw the original version and discussed it by email with TF, she also had similar ideas to Michael: "It's very possible that Tecna performed the truth orb spell wrong, especially being that she was under a lot of pressure and stress. The girls aren't infallible, after all." She would also later say: "Things aren't supposed to work every single time, especially with novice fairies like these." (citing the griffon relocation spell in 3x04 and Tec saying they're probably not far away because this was the first time they performed that particular spell, but to me, that's different than the spell not working at all)
My arguments against:
- If Tecna had cast the spell wrong, Winx Club is the kind of show that would have made it clear to the viewers immediately, rather than let us assume for about half the season that she had cast the spell properly and Avalon was free of secrets
- There was no precedent (at least, in the original) for any of the Winx girls performing a spell wrong because of pressure and stress (the Cloud Tower arc is later in the season, and even then it's made out to be them arguing about what they were going to do)
- Winx Club is also not the kind of show that would introduce a potentially useful plot element, and then throw a curveball by not actually following through on it being useful (the Black Gift is a few years down the road, and outside the scope of these articles in any event) I even went as far to say it was a rule that it has to be effective once, but TF replied "As for your rule, the spell was effective when Amaryl performed it, so it was effective once before Tecna's mishap. We just didn't see the effects thanks to Palladium stepping in." Well, to me, "effective" means actually showing the effects, so it wasn't actually effective :-\ What I was getting at was, why make such a deal about introducing a spell that can be used to reveal people's secrets, if it never actually does that? (Especially when it gets used on someone who must have had plenty to reveal) TF dismissed this rule as ridiculous, saying: "You're the only one with this ridiculous 'if you see it, it must work' rule. Totally unrealistic, in my opinion." (There's that "realistic" argument again... It might not be realistic, but that's how the show rolls, and I'd hardly argue that the rule is ridiculous)
The real issue TF had against the original version's spell was how violent it seemed to make Tecna out to be:
"I must say that for both Amaryl and Tecna to fire these orbs at other people, they must have definite nasty streaks. If the plasma sphere smashed a huge window, what would it have done to Avalon? Blown him up? Broken some bones at least. Nasty nasty Tecna wanting to pound him to shreds. That seems really violent and I can see why 4Kids changed it to the more physically harmless truth orb."
On the one hand, I can understand the whole violence in cartoons issue, but on the other hand, to dismiss the major plothole it causes as merely "flaws" just seems like playing down the issue :-\
